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	SD! : Web boards : Ritual : "Linguistic gestures?" 1 2 3 4 Linguistic gestures? (35) Mon 20 Nov 06, 3:56 AM 678-111-340 US, 2 yrs  In reading these boards, I've noticed a trend. Many, if not most, of the subs/slaves here refer to themselves in the third person, in a myriad of forms. "this girl" "this slave" "this one" "(insert name here)" are all pretty common. There seems to be some confusion over subject pronouns, as some slide into "me" occasionally, although I'm not sure it's deliberate, as it's rather sporadic. And then there's the capitalization issue. "W/we" "O/our" "Him/His/Their/etc" seem to be standard notation for many. Along with this is the tendency, in those that do refer to themselves in first person, to leave off capitalization of subject pronoun "I" (although I do acknowledge as a linguist that English is rather marked in this respect; the tendency is to not capitalize pronouns across the board, rather than only capitalizing a single pronoun). So that's the "what". What I want to know is: Why? I mean, really, what point does it serve? Is third person somehow more demeaning or subservient? If so, how? Just because I refer to someone by their name or the third person singular pronoun doesn't mean they are less. So why would that suddenly be the case for referring to oneself? And the caps/no caps thing...what does that do besides giving the reader a minor headache as they sort through it? I'm sorry, that last was snarky. But I am sometimes really bothered by it. It's just not grammatically proper. And I don't see the point of it; I could get past grammar issues if it served a purpose, but I don't see that it does. So. To those subs/slaves that do this, and to those owners/doms who require it of their slaves: Why? Why do you do it? Why do you require ve to do it? What does it do, in your mind? Has it seemed effective in doing whatever it was you meant it to do? Please, don't be offended. I'm honestly looking for answers, but I'm also slightly frustrated by it, and that's probably coloring my writing. I don't mean offense by any of this. - Mynx, property of Enigma 20 Nov 06, 4:31 AM Masters_babygirl CA, 2 yrs  this girl has not been a slave for a long time and so she might slip into first but her Master has told her to do it and so she shall. Everything this girl says is strickly her oppinion and hopes not to offend you or others by voicing her reasons. The reason this girl (tries) to capitilise anything to do with her Master is out of respect to Him. He is higher up on the "ladder" and His position demands the outmost respect from His slave, and she tries hard to make Him proud of her. this girl has spoken to her Master about speaking in 3rd person and why He has ordered her to do so. It does make this girl much more submissive and therefore much happiner and obediant. It also helps seperate this girl from her being, she is an owned slave and her body is no longer hers her being no longer belongs to her. her past is gone and she has been reborn under the careing, loving, and watchful eyes of her Master, and to speak in 3rd person seperates what she is from what she used to be. Others will likely have a better responce to your questions but that is why this girl does what she does and she is sorry if it is frustrating to you she hates to offend but her Master's love and orders are (absolutly no offence intended and hopefully you'll not judge this girl for it) more important to this girl. 20 Nov 06, 4:32 AM Coyotes_kitten US(WI), 2 yrs  well kitten can't speak for the whole board, but personally this girl is not offended by your post. As you can see, kitten is "required" to speak in third person and yes, when this girl writes about Master Coyote, she types it (or writes it) as Him. kitten can only explain to you why this girl does such. So here we go. Master has kitten talk and write in the third person simply because it pleases Him. And kitten has found that it "feels" submissive to do so. Why? That kitten can't really explain. It simply does. And why does it please Master? kitten doesn't know, she just knows it pleases Him. kitten has slipped up and said "I" or "me" instead (and kitten doesn't not talk in the third person around family.. accidently did that once and got a lot of weird looks.) But when kitten does it when W/we are alone Master will look at His propety and say, "Who?" and kitten will say, "kitten, Master." It makes Him smile and that is all kitten wants. To make Him happy. As for the W/we or U/us or Him typing/writing. kitten does this to show her respect for Master Coyote. This is an odd way to put it, but you see the "Him" or "He" references in the Bible yes? (Please keep in mind kitten nor Master is Christian or Catholic...), to show that "God" is a higher being, as well as out of respect and out of adoration, and worship. All these facts are true to this girl's Master, in kitten's eyes anyway. kitten respects Master, as well as adores and worships Him. **EDIT** Just wanted to add that kitten also writes this way in her slave journal and when leaving notes for Master, or writing Him a poem or letter, etc and so on... So it is not just an online thing with this girl. **End of EDIT** kitten isn't sure if that helps any, but it's the best explanation this girl can express. Coyote's kitten (116-597-286) ~ Owned & collared by Master Coyote "It took a Coyote to tame this kitten." Edited 20 Nov 06, 4:38 AM by Coyotes_kitten 20 Nov 06, 4:33 AM Shadows_girl US, 2 yrs  I think maybe it has to do with the way the persons owner prfers them to refer to themselves. I know I am Master's girl even if I dont call myself girl on the boards. There is no doubt in my mind who or what I am. The whole W/we thing .. I think (and I might be wrong .. wouldnt be the first time wont be the last) I belive this got started in the online "BDSM" rooms. And I use the "" marks around that because I have been in these rooms. The people in there, not all but most, have no clue as to what the lifestyle really is. Its a game for most and they look at a collar as a letterman jacket worn in highschool. For me I cap myself simply because its proper grammer. And it is a force of habit now to simply hit that shift button when I do that. Again it doesnt change the fact of who or what I am. Its simply my typing skills. I, personally, dont see the point in using a little i or doing the whole W/we thing. And as of right now Master allows me to speak in first person. But if he decided to change that .. I might be backspacing more but I would call myself pet or girl or what ever he decided on. 20 Nov 06, 6:47 AM 139-715-032 US(MA), 3 yrs  My master has explicitly forbidden me from doing any of these things, not that I was in the habit of it previously. I am expected to use correct spelling and grammar at all times, to the best of my ability. He's a writer, and it would drive him mad. After seeing the Butchmann's formal protocol and being appalled, my master enthusiastically added on a few more restrictions which I was equally disinclined to break. For example, I am not permitted to use more than one honorific per sentence. ("Sir, would it please you for this slave to relieve himself, my Master, Sir?" "Yes sir, my Master, Sir." And so on...) I am supposed to speak and act in ways that do not draw unnecessary attention to myself or my station. The main reasons for the convoluted forms of speech seem to be training the slave to be mindful of what they say and write, sexually titillation, and publicly advertising one's status as a dominant or submissive or as a member of certain BDSM subcultures. -- Joshua Raven's Boy, Joshua, is a wholly owned subsidiary of Raven Kaldera. You may contact Joshua directly with any questions or comments at josh@cauldronfarm.com, or contact Raven at cauldronfarm@hotmail.com. 20 Nov 06, 6:52 AM 678-111-340 US, 2 yrs  892-216-647 wrote: <snip> It also helps seperate this girl from her being, she is an owned slave and her body is no longer hers her being no longer belongs to her. her past is gone and she has been reborn under the careing, loving, and watchful eyes of her Master, and to speak in 3rd person seperates what she is from what she used to be. <snip>she is sorry if it is frustrating to you she hates to offend but her Master's love and orders are (absolutly no offence intended and hopefully you'll not judge this girl for it) more important to this girl. Oh, Goddess forbid! No, no, I wasn't trying to say anyone should change it or that it *offended* me. I just tend to stick to very correct grammar (well, within my own artistic interpretation of that, heh) and so it's kind of frustrating to try to read things that, to me, fall outside that. I would never dream of saying my linguistic comfort should come ahead of anyone's instructions from their owner. Mes apologies en masse if I gave that impression. I rather like your explanation of why speaking in 3rd "does it" for you and your Master. I suppose I can see that, at least intellectually. I'm not sure I *feel* it myself, but the explanation you gave makes sense. Thank you for that. Coyotes_kitten wrote: <snip>It makes Him smile and that is all kitten wants. To make Him happy. <snip> Heh, I suppose that's a pretty good reason. That one, I can really understand. *grin* Coyotes_kitten wrote: <snip>This is an odd way to put it, but you see the "Him" or "He" references in the Bible yes? (Please keep in mind kitten nor Master is Christian or Catholic...), to show that "God" is a higher being, as well as out of respect and out of adoration, and worship. All these facts are true to this girl's Master, in kitten's eyes anyway. kitten respects Master, as well as adores and worships Him.<snip> *considering nod* If you look at it that way, then I suppose it makes sense. My personal opinion just differs on that point...I usually capitalize Master since that's a title, but to me...well, capitalizing pronouns doesn't seem to be inherently respectful. But that's in *my* mind; obviously it works well for you and your Master, so more power to you for it. Oh, and I'm glad you're not offended, kitten. I've come to respect you in reading your posts around these boards. Shadows_girl wrote: <snip>And as of right now Master allows me to speak in first person. But if he decided to change that .. I might be backspacing more but I would call myself pet or girl or what ever he decided on. You and I are of one mind on this, it seems. I prefer standard grammar on this, but if my Master set down an edict otherwise, I'm sure I'd obey it as best I could. Much as the grammarian in me would be screaming at it... - Mynx 20 Nov 06, 6:54 AM 678-111-340 US, 2 yrs  139-715-032 wrote: My master has explicitly forbidden me from doing any of these things, not that I was in the habit of it previously. I am expected to use correct spelling and grammar at all times, to the best of my ability. He's a writer, and it would drive him mad. After seeing the Butchmann's formal protocol and being appalled, my master enthusiastically added on a few more restrictions which I was equally disinclined to break. For example, I am not permitted to use more than one honorific per sentence. ("Sir, would it please you for this slave to relieve himself, my Master, Sir?" "Yes sir, my Master, Sir." And so on...) <snip> -- Joshua Methinks your Master and I would get along well. Hehe. - Mynx 20 Nov 06, 7:13 AM 631-535-398 US, 2 yrs  i'm not offended by the question either. i used to be automatic at capitalization of i's and all the other things, now i have the other problem, having to go back and correct myself if i'm not talking to my Master. How it progressed for me is i switched at my Master's request from calling Him by His first name to calling Him Master or Sir. That wasn't always capitalized though sometimes it was. It was to make His name something that equals could use with Him but without permission i was not to use. It mentally put me in a subservient space to Him and made me realize i had to act differently to him than to anyone else. i believe the brain recognizes when for one special occasion a person does different than they do for everyone else. It's sorta like training. After doing it enough not only does it become habit, but it also psychologically effects how you veiw that person. Reading books or histories you come across someone who is refered to by a title or capitalized pronouns and that is an important and powerful person. It automatically makes a person automatically reassess their position to this person and how to treat them. From our history as humans there have been leaders and followers. The leaders usually have something to set them apart. For example with children (until recently) it was taught by the parents that it's impolite to say the adult's first name unless invited to. you are supposed to use, Ma'am, Sir, Mr. last name or Ms. Mrs. etc... It is a sign of respect. For a king, you don't just go up and say hey Charley. It is King Charles, it is a sign of respect and also makes you realize they are different from "normal" people. For me it is also a love term and an endearment. Some people call their lovers honey or sugar pie, or sweetie. i call mine Master and would even if He didn't require me to do so. i don't have nickname words with just everyone, for me that is a special person that has a specific nickname. Same as my slave name means to me. giolla. my real name is cyndi and that's what everyone else uses, but my Master named me giolla and when He's switching to the more formal time or into a "scene" it is giolla. It's something that is uniquely mine from Him. He took the time to carefully research it and it is special to me. It also is a trigger word for a different kind of headspace. Just like grabbing my collar in His fist is to me. It helps me switch much more rapidly from everyday thinking to subservient thinking of Him above myself. A ways into O/our relationship He had me try third person just because well, He wanted me to try it and i was intrigued by it and did it in speech around Him as well as writing and that's when the capitalizing any pronouns to do with Him came about as well as the W/we, i do W/we because it would looks stupid and pointless to do We / we or Master and this girl all the time. It shows my respect for Him and sets His status as apart from mine. i try not to over do it as it gets tedious and i certainly can understand it being grammatically maddening. When i started talking without refering to myself as i, having to stop and think before i talked, this girl, Your slave, Your pet, whatever i would be saying, it constantly made me think of what i was saying before i said it as well as always reminding me that He and i have put myself in a different catagory from Him. i cannot claim something He Owns. For me it deepened the submission tons. He liked it but didn't require it, but W/we continue to do it to the extent that W/we do because it is a marker for my brain to realize ok here i'm not with someone equal to me (as opposed to being around freinds or family or people at the store) It switches my way of thinking. i'm not sure if i can describe it any better though. Although this is long i hope i've answered your questions at least from one slave's experiences and idiosynchrocities. slave giolla 20 Nov 06, 7:28 AM slave_emma US(OK), 2 yrs  678-111-340 wrote: So. To those subs/slaves that do this, and to those owners/doms who require it of their slaves: Why? Why do you do it? Why do you require ve to do it? What does it do, in your mind? Has it seemed effective in doing whatever it was you meant it to do? Personally, i find this thread a little silly. The short answer to your question is that E/everyone finds fulfillment in different ways and every (owned) slave has orders from their Owner on how to act. The whole third person thing is required by some Dominants as a sign of their property's submission. It is a form of making someone into more of an object. i think it takes the focus off the slave and puts the focus on the assinged task. my former Master required that i speak in the third person, the slaves/subs that can do that are conquering something that isn't easy to do. Talking in the third person and not sounding less intelligent is easier said than done. i must say though, Master Howard disliked me speaking in the third person, so i was ordered to start speaking in the first person, again. That was a hard transition to make, but my Master was pleased. i have been doing a good job of speaking in the first person for three years now. The lower case and capitals thing i can almost understand where you are coming from. In written text, i have found it easier to recongize S/someone's status and it does offer the Dominants a bit more respect. my Master requires that when i post i use that sort of language,as a sign of respect for both the slave/submissive and the Dominant. i find pleasure in serving my Master and i will follow His orders. No matter how pointless they may seem to outside world. best wishes, slave emma Master Howard's little girl 20 Nov 06, 7:46 AM 678-111-340 US, 2 yrs  631-535-398 wrote: <snip>When i started talking without refering to myself as i, having to stop and think before i talked, this girl, Your slave, Your pet, whatever i would be saying, it constantly made me think of what i was saying before i said it as well as always reminding me that He and i have put myself in a different catagory from Him. i cannot claim something He Owns. For me it deepened the submission tons.<snip> Ahhhh. Okay, I just had one of those moments. You know, where you were going like "umm....ooookay, I guess so..." and then it was explained differently and your brain went "Oh so THAT'S it!" Yeah. I just had one of those. I can see how it would provoke a state of mindfulness with regards to who or what one is. I can see that if I were suddenly required to refer to myself as Mynx all the time (caps or not), which is the name my Master gave me and not a name I'd ever used before in my life, it would remind me each time I had to refer to myself that I'm not referring to the "myself" I always knew, but the self created by my Master. Thank you, giolla. slave_emma wrote: Personally, i find this thread a little silly. The short answer to your question is that E/everyone finds fulfillment in different ways and every (owned) slave has orders from their Owner on how to act.<snip> Well, of course that's the short answer. Obviously, I knew that already. But have you never wondered about the motivations behind something, even when it *could* be answered by a simply "because I said so"? I love digging for motivations behind actions. Maybe that's silly to you; be that as it will. I'm still curious, and going to seek out answers. slave_emma wrote: <snip>The lower case and capitals thing i can almost understand where you are coming from. In written text, i have found it easier to recongize S/someone's status and it does offer the Dominants a bit more respect. my Master requires that when i post i use that sort of language,as a sign of respect for both the slave/submissive and the Dominant.<snip> I'm beginning to see the value of capitalizing pronouns referring to an owner - Him or Her, just like Master or Mistress - but really the slashed version just drives me nuts. Mostly because my mental pronunciation trips over it big-time. I keep mentally pronouncing W/we as "wuhwe" (or S/someone as "suhsomeone") as if I've developed a mental stutter, and it weirds me out. But hey. To each their own, right? I'll get used to it. I was really just wondering why. I thank you all for your input on the subject. - Mynx 20 Nov 06, 8:46 AM 631-535-398 US, 2 yrs  678-111-340 wrote: *snip* Ahhhh. Okay, I just had one of those moments. You know, where you were going like "umm....ooookay, I guess so..." and then it was explained differently and your brain went "Oh so THAT'S it!" Yeah. I just had one of those. I can see how it would provoke a state of mindfulness with regards to who or what one is. I can see that if I were suddenly required to refer to myself as Mynx all the time (caps or not), which is the name my Master gave me and not a name I'd ever used before in my life, it would remind me each time I had to refer to myself that I'm not referring to the "myself" I always knew, but the self created by my Master. Thank you, giolla. *snip* Well, of course that's the short answer. Obviously, I knew that already. But have you never wondered about the motivations behind something, even when it *could* be answered by a simply "because I said so"? I love digging for motivations behind actions. Maybe that's silly to you; be that as it will. I'm still curious, and going to seek out answers. i love those aha moments! i'm glad i could help with one. i actually have tried when going to sleep find good ways to explain things to someone who doesn't think a certain way normally (geek! <-- ) And yes i love to dig for reasons. i think it's called overanalyzing or gathering information to help you better yourself, but i call it mental masterbation and i practice it constantly and have for as long as i can remember! slave giolla Next page