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	SD! : Web boards : Website help : "What the fuck, people?" 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 What the fuck, people? (73) Thu 22 May 08, 8:45 PM little_linnet US, 3 yrs  I am very, very upset. I logged on today to find that this board has lost the majority of its very finest members, those who had real experience with real enslavement or power exchange. Not to slight any of the others, but the loss of Carolyn is especially painful for me. I vividly remember posts Carolyn made on the old Enslavement discussion lists years and years ago and she has been on my radar ever since. The things she had to say and the insights she shared shaped my perception of being owned more than anyone else's. I was excited and yes, a little bit honored, to discuss with her on these boards, to finally have enough experience and wisdom under my belt to be considered one of her peers. Who do we have in her place? I sifted through the boards today and see we have a Second Life "dominant" offering advice. We have the same vocal handful of people in long distance and online relationships, posting as if they have anything useful to contribute to discussions about actual enslavement. We have the same vocal handful of fantasists and people who have had nothing at all but a string of kinky boyfriends and girlfriends but refer to their experiences as "slavery" and "owning slaves". It seems that Tanos' efforts notwithstanding (and I do appreciate Tanos' efforts, make no mistake), the tide of mediocrity is just too massive to stand against, and no matter what steps might be taken to carve out this little space for useful discussions about enslavement, people with a large portion of ignorance and a corresponding sense of entitlement are going to find ways to flood it. I'm fed up. Krista No feminist thinks men and women are exactly the same. But what we reject is the notion that the difference between men and women is that men are human and women are objects. 22 May 08, 8:59 PM lili UK, 8 yrs  Hi, I understand you being fed up. I too was quite shocked, but to be honest I was most shocked by the fact that people who have been around for a long time have chosen to leave without really saying why. (IMO it would have been nice for at least one person to fill us in on what's going on. As it is, we know nothing about what's happened.) Anyway, nothing ever stays the same forever, things change, people change and relationships change....that's life (and this is still, don't forget, only a website.) lili x "Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." (Abraham Lincoln) 22 May 08, 9:12 PM 000-446-713 US(KY), 4 yrs  i do understand how you feel. I post regularly to a much 'lighter' board, as well. There are people practicing enslavement there, people i respect; but the overall flavor of the board does not allow discussion of real slavery, where it is more normal to be told that 'there is no such thing as no limits', 'every slave has the right to walk away', 'you can't be doing that! that's not SSC! and, it's, well, ICKY!', ect. so i was very surprised to see here, on this board, where i come as a refuge from such inanity, the very same kind of discussion going on, as to how 'every slave has limits', 'every slave can walk away', 'you wouldn't be doing those things if you didn't really want to.' it is not, to me, so much a matter of it one or two or twenty people find themselves too busy to post anymore to a certain site i go to - i myself am very on and off through my life with my web activeness, because i just value my real life more. it is more what happens to the overall flavor of the community. shouldn't there be someplace, on all the huge web, where slaves and Masters can feel free to discuss their lifestyle without fear of shocking anyone or being flamed? and, of course, there is a real problem with cyberonly people. I have no problem with people who have reasons they must make that choice - hell, in truth i have no problems with anyone living whatever life they want. the problem is when they get to the point that they are the overwhelming voice of a group. i do understand your frustration. i hope you maintained email addresses for those you admired most so that you can correspond with them, and i hope you have, or find, other outlets. these outlets are necessary to us. 22 May 08, 10:59 PM Sefauk UK, 22 mths  little_linnet wrote: What the fuck, people? I am very, very upset. I logged on today to find that this board has lost the majority of its very finest members, those who had real experience with real enslavement or power exchange. Not to slight any of the others, but the loss of Carolyn is especially painful for me. I vividly remember posts Carolyn made on the old Enslavement discussion lists years and years ago and she has been on my radar ever since. The things she had to say and the insights she shared shaped my perception of being owned more than anyone else's. I was excited and yes, a little bit honored, to discuss with her on these boards, to finally have enough experience and wisdom under my belt to be considered one of her peers. Who do we have in her place? I sifted through the boards today and see we have a Second Life "dominant" offering advice. We have the same vocal handful of people in long distance and online relationships, posting as if they have anything useful to contribute to discussions about actual enslavement. We have the same vocal handful of fantasists and people who have had nothing at all but a string of kinky boyfriends and girlfriends but refer to their experiences as "slavery" and "owning slaves". It seems that Tanos' efforts notwithstanding (and I do appreciate Tanos' efforts, make no mistake), the tide of mediocrity is just too massive to stand against, and no matter what steps might be taken to carve out this little space for useful discussions about enslavement, people with a large portion of ignorance and a corresponding sense of entitlement are going to find ways to flood it. I'm fed up. Krista Krista I agree: losing Carolyn is lamentable but so is her decision to leave without explaining why. In truth, I still find it difficult to understand why she left especially as the majority of people on here (myself included) concurred with her opinion. Thankfully, Carolyn has always struck me as someone who 'can hold their own' and I remain confident that she will return. Please consider however, until such time, this website and the reason Tanos created it in the first place is bigger than any one person. Whilst I understand you're upset, there are still some exceptionally genuine and knowledgeable people on SD! People such as lili, Raven, Michael X, Mistress Tiara, to name but a few, most certainly do *not* fit your description of the people who remain here. Rather than sounding so judgemental, perhaps a little temperance is in order? I hope you're feeling better! Sefa "Shakespeare, who had the deepest penetration into nature, has sum'd up all the charms of beauty into two words: Infinite Variety" - Hogarth 'The Analysis of Beauty' 1753 22 May 08, 11:06 PM 403-930-468 US(VA), 7 mths  little_linnet wrote: I am very, very upset. I logged on today to find that this board has lost the majority of its very finest members, those who had real experience with real enslavement or power exchange. Not to slight any of the others, but the loss of Carolyn is especially painful for me. I vividly remember posts Carolyn made on the old Enslavement discussion lists years and years ago and she has been on my radar ever since. The things she had to say and the insights she shared shaped my perception of being owned more than anyone else's. I was excited and yes, a little bit honored, to discuss with her on these boards, to finally have enough experience and wisdom under my belt to be considered one of her peers. Who do we have in her place? I sifted through the boards today and see we have a Second Life "dominant" offering advice. We have the same vocal handful of people in long distance and online relationships, posting as if they have anything useful to contribute to discussions about actual enslavement. i am so upset at how i see this and sorry if this comes out strong or harsh because i'm highly upset. But, once again i see that some people think just because in there mind they are better then some they can dis others. God, my whole life is a battle and now i find so is my M/s D/s lifestyle a battle too. Oh, don't worry i pay no mind to most of you really, but thank you little_linnet for showing me even in this lifestyle there is those who just are i have no word for it right now ....... well i do, but it isn't nice so won't use it ...... not my way. i will say i know you said no names and may not mean me persay, but i feel i must say i have live in 24/7 Master/slave expirance over 4 years and though i am not in a 24/7 live in life now does not mean i'm less of a sub/slave then the rest you who are. i would not totally agree a long distance relationship makes a person less slave or sub then a 24/7 live in one. They are not the same i know haven done both and yes lots of us subs/slaves and male and female Doms are at different levels in our expirance as well as relationships. Was Carolyn a nice person yes she was one those i said who didn't make me feel unwelcomed here when i first came, but i didn't name many names of people since i wasn't sure who left. But, if you think you replace her or are as good please i don't feel welcomed by your statement(s) and no i will not run and hide because it, but Carolyn didn't make me feel less like i belonged here as your statement(s) did and those of other(s) did when i first came. If you are what takes Carolyn place god help this board and the new people who come in. Just because long distance relationships don't suite your verson of D/s or/and M/s don't make it wrong. Thank you, tracey Master reads and approves all posts she writes and may edit or delete if possible any post she writes, she has no secrets from her Master and is totally honest with Him and has no need to lie to her Master. Like wise her Master Has seen her profile and approved it. 23 May 08, 12:23 AM Steve_Vakesh 2 yrs  lili wrote: I understand you being fed up. I too was quite shocked, but to be honest I was most shocked by the fact that people who have been around for a long time have chosen to leave without really saying why. (IMO it would have been nice for at least one person to fill us in on what's going on. As it is, we know nothing about what's happened.) This is not entirely correct. Carolyn left you her contact information and you could have used it, as she suggested, if you had questions. (And Carolyn was rather hurt that you didn't.) Tanos could have done the same or contacted me. After Tanos publicly asked for an explanation yesterday, I sent him a memo with my explanation. He has not bothered to log on since then to read it. As to why folks left, I can only speak for a few of us because this was not a coordinated decision. Different people left for different reasons, though all of these are related to the unpleasant 'sociopaths' thread (and since Tanos participated in that thread and presumably read what I wrote there, I remain uncertain as to what more explanation he requires). I removed Carolyn from TSR because things had reached a breaking point for us. I did not publicly explain our decision because I do not care for such public displays. Fundamentally, TSR for us was not a place for idle chit-chat, gossip, and exhibitionism. It was a community. That community has changed substantially over the last eight months or so. Note, for example, in the various 'why did folks leave' threads, that it did not occur to any of the posters that the respective owners must have been involved in the decision (as Mike had to point out). As the sociopaths thread made clear, consensus opinion on TSR no longer reflects our values. In fact, it seems antithetical to them. So, I removed Carolyn and will soon leave myself, having terminated my last obligation to TSR. We have needed a break from TSR for some time, and the 'sociopaths' thread crystallized matters for me by changing the issue from one of emotional exhaustion to fundamental values, ethics, and morality. Since people apparently want some larger explanation, I will offer this. Tanos apparently assumed that the TSR community would police and organize itself. To a significant extent, that happened. People like Brutal Antipathy took it upon themselves to harass undesirables until they left; Krista and others pointed newbies to the Wiki and tried to enforce some standards of terminology and what it meant to have an M/s or D/s relationship; and Carolyn and a few others handled a surprising number of housekeeping tasks including acclimatizing people new to TSR (welcoming them, 'introductions' and 'what every should know about TSR' threads, etc.), reporting bugs, and keeping conversations moving by starting new threads. This system broke down over the past year because many of the people handling these tasks were exhausted and because their methods could not solve the really big problems that came along—only Tanos could do that. Only Tanos can explain the purpose of TSR (now SD!), establish limits for acceptable conduct, and define its moral foundation. A list that welcomes sociopaths clearly lacks a moral center. It is not an appropriate place for me or mine. Steve 23 May 08, 12:26 AM 238-864-563 US(CA), 11 mths  i've only been a member here for a few months. i generally find the discussions helpful, and those that i don't i ignore. There are some people whose opinions i value more than others. i don't know what category the original poster would put me in, since i am searching for a master and willing to relocate, which means initially i am meeting people on line. That doesn't mean i want to remain that way. It also doesn't mean i haven't been real time and face to face. While i don't think an entirely cyber relationship is M/s if the intent is to stay that way, or to see each other infrequently because of the distance, sometimes there is a period of time before one person can relocate. There is also the general problem of finding a compatible someone, and what i call the "false starts" where you begin and find there is something that prevents going forward. Additionally, there is what i refer to as the "getting your feet wet" approach, by which i mean that someone may begin with a cyber only "relationship" with their dom or slave, because they are only beginning in their development or understanding or acceptance of who they are. Not everyone is able to go from 0 to 100% all at once. For some of us, it has taken time to move to where we are willing and able to commit to what we want and accept no substitutes. Hence, i view some of the people here as in transition. For the most part, i find the people here are generally more serious and knowledgeable than i've found on other websites or email discussion boards, and consequently i have been hopeful a potential master will find me here, or that i will find him. i have noticed, however, some recent flaming of people (the woman who asked a question and made a politically incorrect comment about Latino men being the most recent i recall) where the focus of the discussion becomes something other than what the thread intended because the person doesn't state their question or thought very concisely or at least in a way everyone finds acceptable. That is among the reasons some of us don't post often or at all. i don't post often, but i read daily, at least those topics that are of interest to me. i don't know who Carolyn is or why she left. It sounds like some posters would prefer to limit this site to people who are already in 24/7 real time, real life M/s relationships. Where would that leave those of us who are looking for that type of relationship? And, doesn't this site serve as an educational forum for those who are still learning? It is appropriate, i think, to point out when people join that an entirely cyber relationship doesn't really fit the IE/TPE or M/s theory or practice that the people who join here aspire to or accept. Nor, in the view of most of us here, would a relationship where the parties see each other face to face in person (not on webcam) only infrequently (i recall someone who had been a "slave" and had seen her "master" twice in six years, for example... i felt really sad for her...). Isn't part of why we are all here to teach, guide, advise, assist, and learn as well as to share our own experience with others who are living in an M/s 24/7 real time relationship, or seeking one? 238-864-563 23 May 08, 12:35 AM 238-864-563 US(CA), 11 mths  As to why folks left, I can only speak for a few of us because this was not a coordinated decision. Different people left for different reasons, though all of these are related to the unpleasant 'sociopaths' thread (and since Tanos participated in that thread and presumably read what I wrote there, I remain uncertain as to what more explanation he requires).... A list that welcomes sociopaths clearly lacks a moral center. It is not an appropriate place for me or mine. [/quote] What sociopath thread? 238-864-563 23 May 08, 1:59 AM skylerpet US(ND), 12 mths  i haven't read the "sociopaths" thread and i think i'm glad i haven't. i too have noticed a large change in this board. It used to be a place i could come to enjoy mature discussions and conversations about D/s and BDSM. Now it seems to have become more of a pissing ground than anything else. However, all message boards go through flux, just as life does, and instead of stomping my feet and throwing a tantrum, i believe i will stick it out, and see where the board goes. http://kittypetskyler.wordpress.com/ http://bdsmhaven.proboards80.com/index.cgi ~~~~ Master allows me my posting privileges. He will deny and/or completely remove them as He sees fit. ~~~~ 23 May 08, 5:14 AM 953-171-915 21 mths  little_linnet wrote: What the fuck, people? *snip* Who do we have in her place? I sifted through the boards today and see we have a Second Life "dominant" offering advice. We have the same vocal handful of people in long distance and online relationships, posting as if they have anything useful to contribute to discussions about actual enslavement. We have the same vocal handful of fantasists and people who have had nothing at all but a string of kinky boyfriends and girlfriends but refer to their experiences as "slavery" and "owning slaves". *snip* i understand your upset. i enjoyed the thoughts and insight of those gone and hope for their return. i do, however, take offence to this statement as i am sure others who have very real ldr and online relationships may too. my relationship to my Master is quite real even if in your eyes it is not as real as your life. In my few posts i had hoped to be considered useful. Again, i understand your upset...you have every right to be...but why allienate others in the process? i'm truly sorry you are so upset. -His pet 23 May 08, 6:11 AM JRCs_petk HK, 13 mths  953-171-915 wrote: little_linnet wrote: What the fuck, people? *snip* Who do we have in her place? I sifted through the boards today and see we have a Second Life "dominant" offering advice. We have the same vocal handful of people in long distance and online relationships, posting as if they have anything useful to contribute to discussions about actual enslavement. We have the same vocal handful of fantasists and people who have had nothing at all but a string of kinky boyfriends and girlfriends but refer to their experiences as "slavery" and "owning slaves". *snip* i understand your upset. i enjoyed the thoughts and insight of those gone and hope for their return. i do, however, take offence to this statement as i am sure others who have very real ldr and online relationships may too. my relationship to my Master is quite real even if in your eyes it is not as real as your life. In my few posts i had hoped to be considered useful. Again, i understand your upset...you have every right to be...but why allienate others in the process? i'm truly sorry you are so upset. -His pet His pet, Whilst Little Linnet's wording may have seemed a little harsh or derogatory, I'm sure she did not mean it as a personal attack. Little Linnet is grieving a loss of like minded people, who can offer a true perspective on 24/7 Ms relationships. As realistic and loving as an online or LD relationship may be, there are several marked differences. In an Online or LD relationship there is always the novelty factor. Those involved generally only see the other in the best possible light, any real time spent together is savoured with the knowledge that their time together is limited. This means that you're not going to see a lot of the ups and downs that occur in a real life 24/7 relationship. Half the issues/concerns that plague a real life relationship are never going to appear, let alone be considered. What Little Linnet is missing is a 'real perspective' from those who have trod the same path that she is on. In a way, those in an online/LD relationship have an element of fantasy. Not in the keyboard wanking sense, but in the fact that they're not together 24/7, the owner is never going to have ultimate control over the slave. We are not discounting or ignoring advice from those who are not in a situation similar to our own, it is simply that we are mourning the loss of several credible members whose experience is priceless. Next page