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	SD! : Web boards : IE Theory : "vanilla tenderness and feelings" 1 2 3 4 vanilla tenderness and feelings (36) 8 Jul 08, 10:04 AM anjuli UK, 18 mths chuckhov wrote: I think that is really beautiful! - Thank you for this... -Chuck Make your mind up, Chuck! Which is it? Delight or disaster, hmmm? ~~~ “I, with a deeper instinct, choose a man who compels my strength, who makes enormous demands on me, who does not doubt my courage or my toughness, who does not believe me naive or innocent, who has the courage to treat me like a woman.” - Anais Nin ~~~ 8 Jul 08, 6:26 PM 391-117-605 US(WI), 10 mths thank you anjuli..........i though the same!! emma Master J's naked bitch fuckslut slave and property that exits to please and serve Him. emma Edited 8 Jul 08, 6:27 PM by 391-117-605 8 Jul 08, 8:47 PM sclavus_princess US, 7 mths i had to post on this because i feel strongly on this subject, i tend to not want to seem to opionated on most subjects as to never offend anyone on the boards but, big but lol.. Why does tenderness and love need to be classified as vanilla? i don't see that being loved and shown tenderness by Masters/ect. is in any way just vanilla, it is almost as if the original poster's M, may see showing these emotions as a weakness or perhaps He feels it would undermine his authority as a Master..i believe that a true Master is to provide evrything and in all ways that his slave reguires, and most of us/slaves need to feel loved and be shown tenderness to deepen our slavery and growth as people..with holding love and affection from somebody will most definately be detrimental to someone, furthermore why would a Master not want His slave to feel "good" in her "place"? A happy slave is a good slave, and both parties in a M/s relationship need to be getting what they need emotionally.. much respect 8 Jul 08, 9:15 PM anjuli UK, 18 mths I understand your response, and precisely because J is different with me, I chose not to respond to the OP directly. I think that the 'My Master loves me and that's how it should be' is unhelpful to her in dealing with the dynamic she is in. Even the 'I can't understand how you can submit without love' is counterproductive to her. What everyone finds after they have been here a while is that there are many many ways of doing this, many different dynamics. Some do not involve love and tenderness as we generally see them but that does not make them wrong or the M's involved cold-hearted bastards. Could it be that to take on the same responsibility and care and commitment for someone, to make the physical, financial and emotional commitment to someone whilst NOT loving them (in the accepted sense) is actually a greater sacrifice? I've found that very close, strong relationships that I have come to admire and respect here are sometimes not based on what I think of as love. I'm not their best advocate because it's not my own experience but I have bee able to see that they are still wonderful relationships. Before you judge, consider that to love someone is to love them the way they wish to be loved - not how you think they should want to be loved? Open your minds, people... there are more things under the skies than most of us give credit for. anjuli ~~~ “I, with a deeper instinct, choose a man who compels my strength, who makes enormous demands on me, who does not doubt my courage or my toughness, who does not believe me naive or innocent, who has the courage to treat me like a woman.” - Anais Nin ~~~ 8 Jul 08, 9:41 PM sclavus_princess US, 7 mths Anjuli, i guess what i was reacting to was her desire and/or need to feel loved, i think getting over that need would be very hard and painful. Also i do understand how a M/s relationship can work w/ out love but usually is a mutual decision as in this case she conveyed that it wasn't..Yes it can definately be argued that making the sacrifices one makes to take care of another are showing love, as in my case i have a great deal of trouble showing physical affection in other ways that do not involve "sex" but i do show my "love" in other ways to my Master and am working on showing it in just tender touches ect., but that is just O/our dynamics as He shows me much tenderness and affection..i in no means meant to belittle what works for others and revel in the fact everybody in this lifestyle is so differant and that there is always much to learn from the experiences of others so again i apologize if i came off as intolerant because in fact i am the exact opposite...sclavus princess 8 Jul 08, 10:41 PM Mistress_Tiara UK, 2 yrs There are numerous, quite different kinds of M/s relationships. Some are essentially loving 'romantic' relationships where one party is dominant and the other submissive but love is the basis of their connection. Some are based on a mutual assumption of superiority of the Dominant. Some are based on a detached, quasi 'clinical' arrangement between the Owner and slave, where the slave simply submits to and serves their Owner to fulfil the needs of them both. Some slave's say 'I submit to my Owner because/as long as S/He loves me'. Some are poly and therefore the slave cannot define themself as the focus of their Owners attentions. Some are based on the slave purely as a resource.....the list of varieties is endless. The relevant focus should be on finding the kind of relationship that works for both/all the individuals involved. If a slave needs to feel loved and adored by their Owner, then a relationship where affection and romance are not an option will prove difficult to sustain. Equally, if a slave needs to feel belittled and objectified by their Owner then an Owner who whisks them off for romantic weeks to Paris will not work well. In this way M/s is not so different to any other kind of relationship - the trick is in both/all parties picking the right other(s) to start with, working at things as they develop and adapting where possible, and knowing when to call it quits if things are simply not working. It may be possible for the OP to learn to see her Owner's approval in other ways as fulfilling her need for tenderness etc. It could well be that the behaviours she now desires are traits she has *learned* to desire (which the refernce to 'love like in the movies does hint at'), and so can un-learn them. That is a decision which any individual can only make for themselves. Good luck 391-117-605, I hope you find good ways forward, that make you happy. *~*Mistress Tiara*~* 8 Jul 08, 10:54 PM anjuli UK, 18 mths Oh dear I did it again. Sorry princess, that wasn't meant to sound like I was aiming that directly at you. It was really just to pick up and run with your thought. As I say, I understand it entirely and I think the reaction is natural. I love that the OP got the help that she needed from Leesie's lovely post. And I think like you I'm sensitive to this question and in fact most times I shy away from talking in depth on it for some reason. Perhaps because I project feelings onto others in these circumstances? An overdose of empathy maybe? Unasked for over-protectiveness on my part I think. However just to take it forward a little. Is it true that some seek this - or do some just find that this is the path that their masters lead them to and down which they decide to follow? Most that I have known of, did go in knowing how it would be but I'm not sure anyone has really said it was strictly what they chose. It certainly seems like a hard road but one which I've seen some strong and beautiful slaves travelling with true dedication to their masters. anjuli ~~~ “I, with a deeper instinct, choose a man who compels my strength, who makes enormous demands on me, who does not doubt my courage or my toughness, who does not believe me naive or innocent, who has the courage to treat me like a woman.” - Anais Nin ~~~ 18 Jul 08, 12:58 PM 391-117-605 US(WI), 10 mths thanks to everyone who commented to the original query. as the OP i wish to report that i HAVE found peace and fulfillment in what Master offers, as i believe leesie was suggesting (and i noted intently). i came to this lifestyle seeking something different than vanilla; something that would work better for me. my Master is very expressive in His appreciation of me...He even verbalizes His love; albeit it remains different that the expressions this once-little-girl envisioned for her life. But, i've had vanilla love in my life and it was not what i needed. i am discovering that my Master's love for His property and His validation of THAT property is indeed a good fit for this slave heart. Also, my love and expression of that love are welcomed by my Master and that is very satisfying to me. Huge thanks to all who offered consul and specifically to 000-446-713, leesie, anjuli, and Mistress Tiara for their perspectives. These are posts that truly spoke to me. emma Master J's naked bitch fuckslut slave and property that exits to please and serve Him. Edited 18 Jul 08, 1:02 PM by 391-117-605 23 Jul 08, 2:45 AM Crueldarknights_dawn US(OR), 5 yrs Y! sclavus_princess wrote: Why does tenderness and love need to be classified as vanilla? i would have to agree with you princess. While i understand that each must live the lifestyle according to their own needs/desires, i don't feel like love and tenderness are exclusively vanilla. my Master is a very strict, demanding, controlling, sadistic man. Yet he loves me. He shows me affection and likes it when i also show affection to him. i, like many here it seems, could not live the M/s dynamic without feelings from both sides. However, i do know that some do not want or need that in their relationship. i think sometimes the problem lies in a slave that expects NOT to feel upset by the lack of love. It's a part of our human wiring. As long as she acknowledges and deals with those feelings, then she will eventually be content in her life if she is truly happy with her Master and his idea of what their M/s dynamic should be. Giving up doesn't always mean you are weak; sometimes it means that you are strong enough to let go. 28 Jul 08, 11:11 AM Viceand_Vertu CH, 6 mths My understanding of a blooming D/S relationship is that to grow deep in enslavement, what you call 'vanilla' feeling of love is essential, as much as sensitivity of the Dominant is the key to education and sharing of emtion, feeling and sensation... Next page