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	SD! : Web boards : Poly D/s : "Poly questions..." 1 2 3 Poly questions... (25) 8 Sep 08, 10:22 AM anjuli UK, 18 mths Actually I don't think Tanos has been online to even see it. And no, clarice has not been 'criticised'. I have made that clear to clarice herself. Some of us have expressed concern. The situation is clear: she is a minor, she is at risk, and she is violating the AUP by being here - and that puts the site and its host and probably the rest of us at risk too. I find it disturbing that older male doms who might otherwise be expected to be responsible and reliable figures who could be looked up to by someone new to M/s, would support the presence of a young girl here or even in the lifestyle in her own life. But leaving aside the wider matter as I have to accept I cannot protect her, I am staggered at this defence of her presence here on SD! WHY would you want a 16 year old to be participating in our discussions, which are frequently sexual and often very frank and detailed? Can anyone who thinks this is okay answer me this? Would you involve your own children or is it just others' that are fair game? And yes there are pictures that are unsuitable here - many of them. Pictures however, I would think are less of a threat than active help and tacit condoning of her membership and the situation she is currently in - which is illegal in the states may I remind you? The law says she cannot give consent until the age of majority. Encouraging her and defending her being here could put you at risk in law too - grooming, facilitating, commissioning. Hello!!! Oh and by the way, the AUP for those who have any doubts, says that advocating or condoning non-consensual behaviour is reason for ejection from the membership too. And that includes where consent cannot be given because of the minority of the subject. Acceptable Use PolicySeek Discipline! This document describes the minimum standards you agree to meet by using the site. Legal Age You may not use this site if you are under 18 years of age, or the age of majority where you are - whichever is greater. Legality of Content You may not access this site from jurisdictions where accessing or providing adult material is illegal. You may not upload text, pictures or other content which is likely to be legally obscene under English law. Furthermore, you may not link to or upload pictures of children, or adults who appear to be children, in any context, however innocent the image appears to be. Consensuality You may not use this site if you practice, advocate or condone any of the following activities, in the UK or other countries: rape, paedophilia and any other form of sexual abuse involving children or non-consenting adults. Tanos is clearly away or busy but I for one shall be attempting to contact him to get this dealt with as a matter of urgency. I am the last person to see paedophiles behind every bush and abhor state nosiness but the more people that emerge supporting the presence of a minor here the more predators we are likely to attract, nevermind the law. I find the whole thing creepy and uncomfortable. For goodness sakes people? anjuli ~~~ “I, with a deeper instinct, choose a man who compels my strength, who makes enormous demands on me, who does not doubt my courage or my toughness, who does not believe me naive or innocent, who has the courage to treat me like a woman.” - Anais Nin ~~~ 8 Sep 08, 8:46 PM 783-405-105 4 mths It is vital we protect minors and the site have a responsibility to do this along with us as responsible adults. I think Clarice simply will come back on the site by adjusting her age on a new profile. It is obvious she is quite knowledgable for her age. 8 Sep 08, 8:54 PM OpheliaDies72 US(UT), 5 mths Y! Ok, back to the topic at hand... lol. I have gotten very good suggestions on the site, and I thank you all for your time. On another note... Any suggestions on the reading material and/or sites for review? K 9 Sep 08, 12:05 AM Hawklord UK, 2 yrs Well surprise surprise. I didn't think that would go without some flame and I'm not surprised at who fires the first shot. anjuli wrote: Actually I don't think Tanos has been online to even see it. Well if you are concerned why not ask him? anjuli wrote: I find it disturbing that older male doms who might otherwise be expected to be responsible and reliable figures who could be looked up to by someone new to M/s, would support the presence of a young girl here or even in the lifestyle in her own life. Please don't lecture me. On second thoughts go ahead - I can take it. The young woman is probably in tears. anjuli wrote: I am staggered at this defence of her presence here on SD! Then be staggered. As for me I am staggered that someone in this lifestyle can be so straight-laced and judgmental. anjuli wrote: WHY would you want a 16 year old to be participating in our discussions, which are frequently sexual and often very frank and detailed? Can anyone who thinks this is okay answer me this? Would you involve your own children or is it just others' that are fair game? Hey - I didn't invite her here. My wants and your wants don't come into it. She is here. Now what do you do? We are members of a sub-group that most society thinks is sick. Who are we to judge. Yes I have been married twice and have had 5 daughters yes 5. My 4th daughter is 15 - that's under-age for the UK - has a bf and has had sex. It's the 21st century. If she were a submissive I would do my best to advise her and her Dom. Not throw my hands up in disgust and lecture about the law. anjuli wrote: And yes there are pictures that are unsuitable here Unsuitable for whom? Do a search for slave girls with safe search switched off. She can do it anytime. The pics here are tame because Tanos makes sure they are. If there is a risk to Tanos then tell him but don't judge the girl. The whole lot of us are on the edge of the law and you know it. anjuli wrote: of a threat than active help and tacit condoning of her membership and the situation she is currently in - which is illegal in the states may I remind you? You can scare her off, make her unwelcome, she'll rejoin and lie about her age. Or you can help her. I choose the latter. anjuli wrote: The law says she cannot give consent until the age of majority. Encouraging her and defending her being here could put you at risk in law too - grooming, facilitating, commissioning. Hello!!! Law again. I think I know the law well enough both UK and US. What about compassion, guidance? That's not encouragement. anjuli wrote: Oh and by the way, the AUP for those who have any doubts, As I said - it's not your problem. If you are worried ask Tanos. But give the girl a break. anjuli wrote: says that advocating or condoning non-consensual behaviour is reason for ejection from the membership too. And that includes where consent cannot be given because of the minority of the subject. Then report me too. anjuli wrote: Tanos is clearly away or busy but I for one shall be attempting to contact him to get this dealt with as a matter of urgency. I am the last person to see paedophiles behind every bush and abhor state nosiness but the more people that emerge supporting the presence of a minor here the more predators we are likely to attract, nevermind the law. I find the whole thing creepy and uncomfortable. For goodness sakes people? You have not convinced me one bit. A 16-year-old may be a minor but it does no good to disapprove of her activities. Guidance is better. I certainly don't see a risk of pedophiles coming on this site on the offchance of finding a young person. You are seeing ghosts in the closet. And I'll give you another thing to think about. You all tell her to erase her post and not post again. Then the predator (if we have one) writes privately to offer advice. Best to keep it here in open discussion. But to sum up - let Tanos deal with this. It's his call not yours or mine. ~~ Hawklord Sic volo. sic jubeo. stat pro ratione voluntas 9 Sep 08, 10:19 AM anjuli UK, 18 mths Well, we know where you stand then eh? I rest my case... and I think those who know me and read my postings know that I judge no-one, except of course, those who think it's okay to have a minor here. If I were a version of the Daily Mail reader, frothing at the mouth, and attacking doctors in paediatrics because they're too ignorant to know the meaning of the word, then perhaps you'd have a point and your criticisms would be warranted but I'm not am I? I will not respond to personal jibes and implied rudeness in your post about me personally. Neither will I be drawn into commenting or responding to you on a personal basis or with regard to your children. I will say regarding what I've 'done' or said to clarice to make her cry and hurt her - I think people can and will read what I've written (as carefully and as sensitively as possible, I might add) rather than take the accusations and implications made by you at face value. Compassion is not something I have ever been accused of lacking but there are hard realities that get in the way. I wish they didn't in this case but they do. I don't judge her in any sense or way - I judge those who support her being here and perhaps those who put her where she is now! Bt your idea that she can be guided here whilst unprotected in the big wide world is unreal and the idea that it's somehow 'the right thing to do' is bizarre. Predators often believe the people they prey on love them but there is love and there is the product of a twisted mind... so I'll say a polite no thanks to that brand of care, thanks. Kindness here is not in a minor's interests as I see it. That's why it's an adult site with an age limit of 18 or whatever the age of majority is where you live. And as to lecturing you... if the cap fits, you go ahead and wear it. It was a open comment, a statement... read it again. Perhaps you didn't invite her, no, and yes, it's for Tanos to delete a profile if he feels it's necessary... but we all have to answer our own consciences on matters like this. Is it okay to steal someone's car because they leave the keys in the ignition? Is it okay to let someone help themselves to your neighbour's property because he accidentally leaves the door unlocked? I carefully choose less inflamatory examples here but you know exactly what I mean. If we do nothing when we feel and know we should speak up - we are complicit in what ensues. I have few areas where I feel a line has to be drawn so hard in the sand but this is one of them and I won't apologise for that. anjuli ~~~ “I, with a deeper instinct, choose a man who compels my strength, who makes enormous demands on me, who does not doubt my courage or my toughness, who does not believe me naive or innocent, who has the courage to treat me like a woman.” - Anais Nin ~~~ Edited 9 Sep 08, 10:35 AM by anjuli 9 Sep 08, 12:40 PM Hawklord UK, 2 yrs anjuli wrote: Well, we know where you stand then eh? I don't stand anywhere except that I support young people exploring the world. It's the same with drugs. I meet teenagers and I don't tell them it's illegal I tell them about the dangers and how to do it as safely as possible if they must do it. That is my position on the spectrum of things. anjuli wrote: I rest my case... and I think those who know me and read my postings know that I judge no-one, except of course, those who think it's okay to have a minor here. Actually my perception is different. You have strong opinions and you are not afraid to express them. I respect that. But you are judgmental. anjuli wrote: I will not respond to personal jibes My first comment about the underage stuff was measured and gave an honest opinion (which I suspect is shared by others who would prefer to remain silent). You then launched back a diatribe that I could almost hear. You used words like "staggered" and found my stance "disturbing" and not "responsible" and by implication accused me of grooming etc. That is personal. I have been around for a long time, have oodles of experience and will not be put down by anyone. In the circumstances I thought my reply was restrained. anjuli wrote: Neither will I be drawn into commenting or responding to you on a personal basis or with regard to your children. You brought up children not me. I have experience with bringing up children. Have you? I have experience with teenagers and their problems. I solve those problems. I communicate with them. I do find it strange to amusing when people in this lifestyle quote the law. People in BDSM need protection FROM the law not the other way round. Now I am not saying that clarice should be here. The site rule is plain. But there are kinder ways of doing it. You made a decision that she should go. Not yours to make. If you have a concern you should take it to Tanos. ~~ Hawklord PS I will not reply to any more posts on this subject. That does not mean I concede any arguments. Sic volo. sic jubeo. stat pro ratione voluntas Edited 9 Sep 08, 12:42 PM by Hawklord 9 Sep 08, 1:21 PM Mistress_Tiara UK, 2 yrs I would like to point out that every individual here signed up for membership to this site on the understanding that it was a site for adults. As Tanos has pointed out, that is the first and most prominently stated point in the Acceptable Usage Policy. He even went to trouble of putting it in heavy type. It is obvious therefore that people will have considered that it is a basic principle of the site. By deciding to join the group we naturally assumed that its clearly stated rules of usage would be upheld. It is therefore perfectly reasonable for anyone who questions it if they are not. They may feel compromised by this violation of the basic site rules and reasonably so. Hawklord's points regarding the realities of young people's lives are obviously valid. As someone who works lecturing in the Further Eduacation sector I have no doubt that many many young people are doing all kinds of things we may not wish they were. I'm sure many have been looking at hardcore pornography since they were in primary school. Many take a variety of drugs. Many engage in risky sexual activity. They may drink to excess or decide to starve themselves. A worrying percentage self harm. This is all sadly, fairly generic teenage behaviour. It does not however mean we should aid them in doing this. The fact that so many teenagers drink underage does not mean publicans are allowed to sell them alcohol, or that just because many kids use drugs it should be fine for them to be sold out of ice cream vans outside a college campus (a genuine example incidentally). There are for example many websites descibed as 'pro anna' which offer support for anorexics to carry on their anorexia, claiming it is a 'lifetyle choice'.... At what point do we say, 'actually, we care enough about young people to watch out for their wellbeing', even when it goes against their wishes? I do believe that educating young people to make safe sensible choices is a valid approach, and I do believe that this must be based on reality not just how we would like the world to be. If kids are screwing about then it's absolutely sensible to provide them with condoms for example. However that is simply not what is happening here; the issues are becoming blurred. A schoolkid has signed up to a discussion group for those in, or interested in M/s relationships. We are not 'protecting her' or any such thing by including her in this group. What we are doing is discussing a topic that is one which most people even within our own community - let alone the community at large - and the host of this site (by his statement in the AUP) consider to be unsuitable for minors. A lot of the topics we discuss here are overtly sexual and that is a concern to people I'm sure. The fact that she could look it up elsewhere is not something I can help, but I do not wish to be discussing it with her. If I was having an explicit conversation with My boy and My 17 year old daughter came into the room I would stop. Of course I'm sure she hears far more explicit conversations at college every day, or could hop online and look at hardcore porn if she was determined, but I don't see that that makes it acceptable for Me to talk that way around her. It's an issue of individual responsibily and rights. I have no ill will toward Clarice at all; she actually seems very pleasant; and once she is legally an adult would have no problem with her being here if that is what she still wishes. I also sincerely hope she finds support for her personal issues. I do not however believe we are doing this young lady a service by discussing an adult lifestyle, or graphic sexual topics around her. I also think that her presence compromises the members of this board who registered here believing it to be an adult community. I do not believe that Tanos has simply shrugged his shoulders and said 'oh well, we will just have kids here now', as that would fly in the face of his own stance in the AUP and undermine the standing of the board. There are numerous possibilities. For example once a profile has been deleted, it automatically re-activates without any information ie in the same format as Clarice's currently is, if the account owner logs back in with it again. Perhaps this is the case here, who knows? I do know however that Tanos has gone to the trouble of devising the AUP to include the rules it does, and that we all registered here initially on the basis of that AUP. *~*Mistress Tiara*~* 9 Sep 08, 2:18 PM anjuli UK, 18 mths Hawklord wrote: PS I will not reply to any more posts on this subject. That does not mean I concede any arguments. Of course you don't. <rolls eyes> That flouncy little exit puts me in mind of a teenager and a slammed door actually ... might explain a lot. I still refuse to discuss the personal with you - or anything else for that matter, with a blank screen or myself - so I will not be addressing your points. Funnily enough, I can live with your summary judgements! <laughs> But you should know that making them and then proclaiming, 'I'm not listening', does not make you right. I am quite happy to leave it to those reading to make up their own minds. It is indeed my view that the board is compromised if minors are encouraged when we know full well that they cannot give full and informed consent to all that is discussed here or experienced in the M/s lifestyle. I've said my piece. I await to see what transpires. Thanks MT for demonstrating, again, an understanding of the issue that seems to pass some others by and adding a voice of reason. And apologies to ophelia for the derailing of her thread. I still find it hard to believe that this could be in any way a contentious issue but you live and learn. anjuli ~~~ “I, with a deeper instinct, choose a man who compels my strength, who makes enormous demands on me, who does not doubt my courage or my toughness, who does not believe me naive or innocent, who has the courage to treat me like a woman.” - Anais Nin ~~~ Edited 9 Sep 08, 2:34 PM by anjuli 9 Sep 08, 2:30 PM Hawklord UK, 2 yrs Mistress_Tiara wrote: Good stuff. I wasn't making a cowards exit. It's just that when two people disagree so widely the argument can go nowhere. You made some fresh new points and I agree with most of them. Thank you. And yes, I do apologize to ophelia for the changed direction. This happens on all sorts of forums when some new topic emerges while discussing the first. ~~ Hawklord Sic volo. sic jubeo. stat pro ratione voluntas 11 Sep 08, 3:03 AM OpheliaDies72 US(UT), 5 mths Y! Hawklord wrote: Mistress_Tiara wrote: Good stuff. I wasn't making a cowards exit. It's just that when two people disagree so widely the argument can go nowhere. You made some fresh new points and I agree with most of them. Thank you. And yes, I do apologize to ophelia for the changed direction. This happens on all sorts of forums when some new topic emerges while discussing the first. ~~ Hawklord Apology Accepted. Now... reading material? Next page