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	SD! : Web boards : Ritual : "Calling A Slave A Slave" 1 2 3 Calling A Slave A Slave (27) Thu 9 Oct 08, 12:42 AM Camille US(CA), 4 mths  This question has been prompted by a few threads and my own life experience but more than any other thing, honest surprise. I am not a submissive (n.) although I have a very submissive (adj.) role in my relationship and family life. I am a slave (n.), owned by another person and it is a permanent arrangement. The division of power 'tween my owner and myself is very clearly slave (adj) but otherwise our life is fairly spare as to ritual and formality. I am frequently referred to as a slave, called "Slave", the word being used as often as "woman" by various friends/acquaintances, both mine and my owner/husband. The truth of the thing is, I simply never gave it much thought until I read the Wiki definition and saw that it did apply, a thing that surprised me. Now, having heard of a second facet to the idea, I would like to hear others' views, please. Providing my status as a slave is known to the individual, (and discretion allows) why is it an offense for another to call me a slave? Or to refer to me as "Slave" (rather than my name)? Would it depend on that person's acknowledged place in a BDSM hierarchy? Would their familiarity with either myself or my owner make a difference? Would it be more appropriate in a formal setting than an informal one? Would the logic be any different in a public forum where I am at least in part participating as a slave? Thank you much for your time, Camille 9 Oct 08, 7:51 AM 315-076-759 UK, 6 mths  Camille wrote: Calling A Slave A Slave (edited/snipped) I would like to hear others' views, please. Providing my status as a slave is known to the individual, (and discretion allows) why is it an offense for another to call me a slave? Or to refer to me as "Slave" (rather than my name)? Would it depend on that person's acknowledged place in a BDSM hierarchy? Would their familiarity with either myself or my owner make a difference? Would it be more appropriate in a formal setting than an informal one? Would the logic be any different in a public forum where I am at least in part participating as a slave? Camille I am called Slave by my owner and those that know I am a slave call me by that name. It is not a problem. There are situations of course, when others from outside this circle would be disconcerted by me being addressed as such so some discretion is called for here and my birth name is used. I am proud to be called Slave. It confirms who/what I am and is VERY helpful in the periods when our relationship is LDR. Having said that I take what has been said on these boards. I am Lady Mistress' slave and no one else's. To be a true slave is to be truly free Slave/Sklavos 9 Oct 08, 8:42 AM Mistress_Tiara UK, 23 mths  Hi Camille, I think the issue people find offensive is to do with context. If for example I said to Anjuli, 'you're a slave' or 'As a slave, do you feel X?' she would not be offended as I am describing her state of being. This issue arises when people use the word 'slave' as a way of showing discourtesy to others, usually as a form of address. As I do not own Anjuli she is my equal in any debate or conversation on here, the fact that I am an Owner and she is a slave does not make her opinions or comments any less significant than mine. There are people who do not understand this however. The riiculous situation then arises of people with no experience of M/s (or even BDSM half the time) who have registered here calling themselves Master X because they like to think about sexy slave girls getting whipped, believing that they have a superior status than Anjuli, you, or any other s type here, and that they thus have the right to pull rank in a debate. Sentences such as 'you may not address Me here slave, for I am a Master!' or 'Do not question/ anger Me slave!' are often used by people who are just getting their rocks off and not contributing anything to conversation. Calling a slave 'slave', 'it', 'child', 'bitch' etc when done in this way can tends to put people's backs up. There is also an issue of courtesy to a slave's Owner. My boy is my slave but he is not anyone elses. I do not expect him to be submssive in any way to anyone else unless I specifically tell him to. I can call him what I wish but that doesn't entitle anyone else to do the same. Should someone here decide to address my boy as 'it' or whatever in the way I have described I would be righteously pissed. It is disrespectful to both me and him. Some slaves or Owners may not feel like this and not mind if all and sundry calls them 'slave', 'it', 'bitch' etc. As so many people do mind however, it is a habit best avoided out of respect. Most people understand the odd grammatical slip or a new poster not getting the finer nuances of this if the poster is generally polite in their tone. The posters who come out with such gems as 'it should not dare question Master!' to slaves they don't know, or 'do not bait me slave!' etc tend to be the sort of people who get a kick out of being consistently disrespectful though. Hope that helped *~*Mistress Tiara*~* 9 Oct 08, 9:01 AM masterfiremaam US(AZ), 2 yrs  In my community, slave is used as a title (adj) as much as Master (adj). My girl is slave girl anne. she is often referred to as 'slave girl' by those who have known her longer than I and 'girl' by me. But, more often than not, we say 'slave (name)' just as we would Master (name). In the end, words only have affect over you if you let them. Master Fire ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Oh Hai! Blessinz of teh Ceiling Cat be apwn yu, srsly. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 9 Oct 08, 10:27 AM property_of_MacCain US(PA), 9 mths  i agree with Mistress_Tiara's statement in its entirety. i do not claim to speak the minds of any others on this board, others can speak for themselves. In my experience it disrespects MacCain who has truly enslaved me if some yahoo i don't know calls me "slave". i am property of MacCain and belong to no one else. Part of my training was to NOT posture as a submissive to anyone but Him. This is something i still struggle with, and it does not help if i am demeaned on a forum. Besides, there are plenty who post here who do not identify as "slave". Submissive, yes. Some identify as pet, some as property. To throw everyone under the same bus seems a wee bit arrogant. Then, in the case of the recent thread in which this was an issue... a Domme was thrown under the bus, too. Can you see how that might ruffle a few feathers? Best to err on the side of caution and refer to all individuals with respect. It is just an issue of good manors. Can i ask ...would you ever go into a burger joint and say "Hey, Patty flipper!" at someone behind the counter. The employees might flip patties for a living but i'm pretty sure they would be offended. To reduce and individual to a generalization is just bad form. Unless, of course, it was consensually agreed upon in advance. MacCain can call me what ever He wishes, i don't have that arrangement with the rest of the population. i understand for some this is not an issue, but this is a very diverse forum. With out knowing what makes an individual tick... it is rude to assume anything. i think that covers my feelings on the subject. p I breathe because He allows me to, indulging Him indulges me. 9 Oct 08, 12:10 PM anjuli UK, 16 mths  <giggles at p> I wonder if there ARE any burger flippers called Patty? There have to be... somewhere. <grins> To be honest, Tiara has said it all as far as I'm concerned. The issue is not calling 'a slave' 'a slave'. It's calling someone else's slave 'slave' - or any other variant of address meant to imply your own superiority, or the preeminance of your views, in the debate. If we treated others here on SD! differently, based on their position within their own dynamics, I guarantee you, we'd none of us on either side learn a damn thing. We'd be deferring to the views of anyone who chose to set up a D profile no matter how inexperienced... or clueless... and where does that get you? I'll tell you... into the realms of fakes and fonies, one-handed typists and gameplayers within microseconds. We'd be riddled with protocol and rules and there'd be crawling and displaying and public 'service' posing inside of a week. Either way, you could kiss goodbye to any sensible interaction or thought... or god forbid, informed debate... from which both s and M types can learn from each other. This is not the way - Tanos would be taking a sledge hammer to the server within a fortnight. We are all equal here because everyone benefits from us being so. anjuli ~~~ “I, with a deeper instinct, choose a man who compels my strength, who makes enormous demands on me, who does not doubt my courage or my toughness, who does not believe me naive or innocent, who has the courage to treat me like a woman.” - Anais Nin ~~~ 9 Oct 08, 1:16 PM 000-874-172 UK, 5 yrs  To me, it's not what you're called or by who, it's why; Look at the title of the thread and then how the discussion was opened; 'Calling A Slave A Slave', is really quite different to 'Calling A Slave - Slave' at all; For me, allowing others to call me 'Slave' would be dis-honourific to Phay, and not only would she be utterly displeased, but I simply wouldn't be comfortable with it, unless she gave consent for it to happen. Calling me 'Slave' opens up a possibility to any amount of treatment from 'anyone', and I don't see how it would be right that I should be subject to that, unless my owner has specifically directed that as an instruction to serve 'someone'. Lovingly Owned by ~Miss Phay~ 10 Oct 08, 5:30 AM Camille US(CA), 4 mths  Thank you to everyone who took the time to answer my questions. Not only have they been informative, but the general honesty has given me things to ponder. Always good. And naturally, some things I understood as if they were my own thoughts. 'Cause basically, they were. Hee. Still, I will need to continue to think on others. I do believe I have 2 ideas straight. The first being, while there is agreement that "slave" is in fact the appropriate word, opinions vary as to who can use it without giving insult to the slave or the slave's owner. The second being that this may be a good place to learn things. 315-076-759 wrote: "I am proud to be called Slave. It confirms who/what I am..." I do feel this way - not only who/what but also living evidence that C and I have succeeded in what we set out to do. Not only does it prove his competence but my own in having made a good agreement. Master Fire wrote: "My girl is slave girl anne. she is often referred to as 'slave girl' by those who have known her longer than I and 'girl' by me." This is very much our way, too, the exception being those I do speak to are indicated (via introduction) by C beforehand and refer to me dependent on the name given them by him. But it is with the same (apparent) feeling of comfort/friendliness. Reading the descriptions offered by Mistress Tiara and Anjuli truly had me surprised. I am amazed to hear there are persons who still behave this way. In fact, Anjuli's description "...we'd be riddled with protocol and rules and there'd be crawling and displaying and public 'service' posing inside of a week." is not too far different from the Chatroom I got booted from - SIX years ago. And, "Do not bait me, slave!" (Mistress Tiara) is a phrase I only hear from C to let me know my attempts at teasing/tempting him away from his work have a good chance of succeeding. So, while it does bother me to think the actions of some knuckle headed types has added risk to the use of a thing I like, and I naturally want to think of the way to make them stop it, for the time being a word to the wise and solidarity! will be sufficient. Thank you, Mistress Tiara and Anjuli. p wrote: Part of my training was to NOT posture as a submissive to anyone but Him. This is something i still struggle with, and it does not help if i am demeaned on a forum. This made me smile 'cause while we are opposite in the details, the result is the same. I had to learn to be socially submissive to the men around me and it's a thing that still causes me difficulties. And feeling demeaned anyplace DEFINITELY does not help me in this area. (Ref: Chatroom, 6 years ago. Haha) p wrote: ...would you ever go into a burger joint and say "Hey, Patty flipper!" at someone behind the counter. The employees might flip patties for a living but i'm pretty sure they would be offended. To reduce and individual to a generalization is just bad form. Unless, of course, it was consensually agreed upon in advance. Haha! I certainly would not. But, if I did have to attract her attention vocally, I would most likely use the term "Ms.", which would be a calculated risk - few women today take offense at being called "Ms." and most who work with the public realize most times those who need their attention won't know their names. I once worked at UCI (lab) and if I had a dollar for every time someone yelled "Vampira!" to me from a half-dozen rooms away... (rolls eyes) But I think a closer comparative might be "woman", as my original example specified my status as a slave would be known to the individual. Still, I do see your meaning and it is best to err with caution rather than assume. My reason for speaking up for the gentleman was that I'd felt he'd been dealt with over harshly, but I do not argue that he was in error. 000-874-172 wrote: For me, allowing others to call me 'Slave' would be dis-honourific to Phay, and not only would she be utterly displeased, but I simply wouldn't be comfortable with it, unless she gave consent for it to happen. Calling me 'Slave' opens up a possibility to any amount of treatment from 'anyone', and I don't see how it would be right that I should be subject to that, unless my owner has specifically directed that as an instruction to serve 'someone'. It was my intention the phrase be taken both ways - a sort of variation on the saying "Calling a spade a spade" - so I'm happy you answered from both ways. There is no part of your idea with which I would take issue if this is in anyway a possibility. I can easily understand both your and your owner's feelings. It's admirable that you make each other a priority. And I feel a little foolish not having realized the nature and reality of such situations. I'm assuming this is something that comes when socializing publicly - clubs or play parties or the like? Thanks again, everyone. Camille 11 Oct 08, 5:12 PM IllogicalAbstraction US(VA), 7 mths  As a very private participant in D/s, someone who is not 'out' to most people in my life, I'm intruiged by the part of your post about how people other than your Master refer to you. But first I have some general observations, that maybe can dial into the specific questions you asked. What's really interesting about language, when you get right down to it, is how the symbols (words) don't have definite fixed meanings. The meaning of what we say is definitely a contextual thing. How we say something, who is saying it, as well as zillion other aspects of context change the meaning of the words in significant ways. It is because of this, I'd say, that we place limits or boundaries on who can say what to us, or more pertinently to your question, who can call us what. So in the case of posting on forums, clearly one is allowing effectively anybody to respond to any and all aspects of the words posted, and obviously we have no control on what they might say in response. And more importantly no real idea of what might be said, since we know a priori nothing about them. Narrowing down a bit to people we know in our lives obviously we have more idea of who they are and what they might say, and more importantly what they might mean, and what their intent might be in saying it. On the third hand, it seems that in general we cannot create situations of perfect safety, and that all the precautions in the world don't save us from painful experiences (no matter how much we want them ) So in general it seems dealing with reality has to include working with surprising and often conflict laden situations. What I'm trying to get at is that there is a very brave aspect to openly identifying a certain way (slave in this case) and allowing the chips to fall where they may in terms of what comes back. And it's easy to confuse bravery with heedlessness, or lack of appropriate concern. So... it seems to me that completely anonymous public forums are not a place to be too open. There is a wisdom in some distance in these situations. In an anonymous situation one is deserving of (in my opinion) a high level of respect, and by virtue of the ease with which that respect is violated, care should be taken to present a solid and self-affirming outer appearance. In more private, personal, situations different behavior might be appropriate. Here too of course there is the issue of the bravery to open honestly and find out what comes back, so here too, frankly, some judicious awareness would be appropriate. But it does seem not only brave but also exciting and potential very real and powerful, to openly be addressed as slave. My two cents is: the opportunity here is to work with yourself in relating to the situations that evolve from that choice. Your question is interesting because it gets at the issue of 'real' slavery vs. modern slavery. The issue of choice obviously is front and center in that distinction. While we all (here) understand the appeal of a choiceless modern slavery, the reality is that there is choice. This reality forces us in many cases to have to make decisions about issues that we might not want to decide about (for both Masters and slaves). Unfortunately that's just the way it is. Your question implies a willingness to make those choices. There is always the option to simply do what you do, and not worry about whether it's appropriate or not. The problem obviously is that then you have to just deal with whatever comes back. So it's up to you if you want to make some choices to limit or attempt to limit what comes back or not. Frankly, I think your Master ought to be at the least guiding you in these issues. 12 Oct 08, 6:34 PM 101-612-178 DE, 2 mths  If i may add my opinion - a slave may be called a slave by anoyne who isnt a slave. 12 Oct 08, 7:31 PM property_of_MacCain US(PA), 9 mths  101-612-178 wrote: If i may add my opinion - a slave may be called a slave by anoyne who isnt a slave. Imo, it is a Master's decision whether thier slave can be slave to anyone else. This may be because MacCain has made it quite clear i am His property and no-one else's. If one thinks they are a slave to the general population (to include vanillas?) that speaks volumes as to one's allegiances. p I breathe because He allows me to, indulging Him indulges me. Next page